[MickeysGirl]

:mEars: No problem! Disney is a large company that has come under fire fire for many years! Fortunately for us all this firehas not caused any real damage!
Animation has come a very long way from it's early days.
But, times do change and what was once acceptable is no longer today. That is one of the reasons Song of the South has not been released.
I'd have agree with ER though, you can not change history. You can tell it in any fashion you choose, but no one can alter what really happened. :mEars:

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[drcorey]

MickeysGirl said::mEars: corey! If you remember correctly Lewis Carroll or Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, (his real name) wrote children's books most famous were Alice in Wonderland & Alice through the Looking Glass. Is your "memory" of Carroll's stories the same as it is of the life of Pocahontas? :mEars:

probully, I never researched any myself, the 2 popular rumors about
carroll was, 1. the alice storys were made up about or for a neighbors
young daughter. 2. Jaberwocky was thought to be made up totally of
nonsense words, but then people said it was street slang from his time
period. can you check these out for me too? this stuff is interesting.

Dr Corey+

[drcorey]

kida said:I just don't understand why people look for things to make Disney look bad. I remember when The Lion King was in the news. Some lady said that her 5 year old saw a word in the dust. My question to that lady is....why does your 5 year old recognize that word?

Why didn't they mention Warner Bros. in the article? Have you seen some of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons? Talk about stereotypes. Look at how they made African-Americans look in those cartoons, and the way they portrayed indians.

I think it's interesting to watch the older animated shows and compare them to todays. Not only has the animation come a long way but so has the content, story lines, morals and polital correctness. If you really want to get down to it, the movies reflect the time period in which they were made. I think that's really cool.

As far as changing history, I don't think that's such a bad thing. Pocahontas is a good movie and when you bring a child to see it and tell them it's based on a true story, they might think it's pretty cool and ask what really happened. I think it's a great way for kids to become interested in history.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be so long....

ha! You want to upset people now?
get warner bros, I think, to release a "interesting short" to dvd,
real stereotyping, it came out right after Disney's Snow White
and the Seven Dwarfs, it was called, Coal Black and the Sebben
Dwarfs. the name of this alone makes censors break into a sweat.
it makes song of the south look like nothing big...

Dr Corey+

[Disneyland1955]

I guess you are right.

[MickeysGirl]

:mEars: That was part of the wonder of Carroll's writings! Lewis Caroll was the master of nonsense! The Jabberwocky is a poem from Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There.
I became interested in his work when I needed to do a birthday theme for a friend who was totally an Alice in Wonderland fan.
Here is a copy of "The Jabberwocky"

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

There have been other translations of this poem some unfortunately not so pleasant or child friendly. No slang just his own made up language that had made sense in it's own curious way.
This however is the original as written by Carrol in 1871 to the best of my knowledge.
Alice Liddell, Carroll's inspiration for the character of Alice in his books, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass was the daughter of Henry Liddell who was the Dean of °°°°°° Church, whom Carroll met while he was continuing his studies there.
Carrol was educated at Richmond School and Rugby School and attended °°°°°° Church College, Oxford. In 1852, he received a scholarship to continue his studies at Oxford. Later, he was ordained as a deacon in the Church of England, but he felt he was not suited to the priesthood and did not pursue it. He became a lecturer in mathematics at °°°°°° Church and remained there until 1881.
Below is one of Sir John Tenniel's original illustrations of the Jabberwocky :mEars:

[Disneyland1955]

I have also seen that word in the Lion King movie. I have also heard that in Aladdin he says Take off your clothes.

[drcorey]

Thats like that thing people said about the line Rafiki said in that thing,
parents said a line sounded like he was telling children to do something
wierd with a banana, Disney said, Rafiki's line was swahili, I think, and
was not even close to what they thought he said. so people can hear
whatever they want to hear or see too.

[MickeysGirl]

:mEars: IDD! It's called selective hearing!!!
People will only hear what they want to hear. Just as they will only believe what they want to believe. :mEars:

[planecrazy]

kida said:
Why didn't they mention Warner Bros. in the article? Have you seen some of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons? Talk about stereotypes. Look at how they made African-Americans look in those cartoons, and the way they portrayed indians.

Actually, IMO WB really wasn't very different from most of the other studios at the same time. The animators at the different studios knew each other and were part of the same culture. While they did it slightly less often, Disney did use similar stereotypical characters and blackface gags in their shorts. But since they've been edited out in the versions the Disney channels have been broadcasting for so many years you just don't realize it.

[planecrazy]

drcorey said:

ha! You want to upset people now?
get warner bros, I think, to release a "interesting short" to dvd,
real stereotyping, it came out right after Disney's Snow White
and the Seven Dwarfs, it was called, Coal Black and the Sebben
Dwarfs. the name of this alone makes censors break into a sweat.
it makes song of the south look like nothing big...

Dr Corey+

If they release "Coal Black" to DVD I will be one of the people getting in line to buy it so I have a better quality copy. But then again, I'm into classic animation more than the average Joe. I wouldn't show it to my kids however until they are old enough to understand the historical context of it.
In 1994, when a group of 1000 leading animators were asked to pick the best cartoons of all time they named "Coal Black" as #21 on the list. If you want to learn a bit more about this film, I'd encourage you to
check out this webpage where it is described and discussed in detail.

[planecrazy]

MickeysGirl said::mEars: IDD! It's called selective hearing!!!
People will only hear what they want to hear. Just as they will only believe what they want to believe. :mEars:

I agree completely.
Someone convinced himself that in "The Clock Cleaners" Donald used swear words when he said "Sez you!" to the mainspring (which then mocks back the line "sez I").
This individual convinced a bunch of people to write to Disney about it and as a result, on the Disney Treasures "Mickey Mouse In Living Colors" DVD, they dubbed a new bit of audio over it (one with a bark from Pluto in the background!). It's about 4 minutes into the cartoon if you want to hear it. If you have a copy from "The Ink and Paint Club" you can listen to the original "Sez you / sez I" exchange for comparison.

[Disneyland1955]

I see MG. Once you hear it from someone else, its in your mind and thats all you hear. To me is sounds like genie saying something.